In this Episode of the App Business Podcast – Chris & Patrice discuss emerging and future mobile technology:
Where is mobile headed over the next 6 months – 3 years, what mind-blowing capabilities are available now, and how do we as mobile application publishers, marketers and developers take advantage of these opportunities?
- The top 3 emerging mobile technologies sure to disrupter the status quo
- The future of app monetization and ads
- The value of master-minds and community – Mobile10x.com
Resources and Linked Mentioned in this Episode:
- Macy’s Begins iBeacons Shopping Tests
- Patrice’s Paleo App
- MoPub Ad Mediation
- Mobile 10x Forum
- Samsung Watch
- Google Glass
Patrice: Hey Chris, good to speak to you.
Chris: Yes. So were gonna have Patrice here, he’s like a recurring guest I think, not a recurring co-host. So kind of the same format. Were gonna dig into a couple of topics that are relevant and in the news and interesting to mobile app publishers and developers and designers. And see if we can find some awesome content to deliver today. I think the topic, lets first, Patrice, lets introduce you a little bit. So Patrice and I have worked together on a couple of masterminds and we’re working together on a forum that we’ll introduce to our audience here in a couple of weeks. But for now, Patrice is, he has his own app company and he also works for a very large marketing firm. Okay, Patrice you go for it.Patrice: Yeah, that’s a good fairly bit of background. I think what I might just wanna hear is I’m not always been an app entrepreneur. And I think of being, I’ve work mostly a long timer on this boring bankers so very much a corporate job for 10 years. And my job, so this probably why this gonna be interesting talking valuation. My job was valuing businesses and so merging acquisitions, private equity, venture capital, that kind of thing. And I realized I didn’t want the impact. I wanted to get business, entrepreneurial stuff. So back in 2007, I started a growth clothing company called Patrice Work, which was very random, we had fun. And in 2010 I did a kick starter projects and last time I don’t have a.. not exact on a few businesses but risky long and shorts of it. I keep doing random entrepreneurial stuff and biggest issue, I cannot avoid easily was the distribution charge. And then one day, that was about 2 years ago now, my wife and I had a child and I thought you know what, investment banking is just really not what I wanted to dig. I wanna do a business that has a great and easy distribution channel and I thought, well apps right? You’ve got the Apple Store, you’ve got Google Play. Yeah lets just do apps and so I started an app business. Just completely randomly and that’s why I’m here today. It’s been a long journey but its gonna be a good one.
Chris: Patrice, has that been about 2 years since you started, in mobile?
Patrice: Yeah, yeah! Were building lots of app, but we’re better. And I started knowing absolutely nothing. Posting a job of Elance probably a lot of business have turned giving forty responses in various, different companies over the world especially India and I can’t believe I didn’t taken some of the cleaners really. I think I’m very very lucky and but that’s how you learn, right? You try, bit of AB testing and try something, try something else. And then just a closer bit from what I am now, I’ve setup a bunch of apps, mostly diet apps and then a very too long children interactive kids book, platform? That should be very very cool hopefully in time for Christmas and well I’ve also started a job and that part is very counter intuitive for a lot of people. And I think again, app business, but I started a job back in May and I wanted to maximize my revenue in terms of mobile and match the gladiator over the company called Somo and then make apps. They not just make apps for big companies, they also talked about mobile strategy, innovation. Also coolest new innovation coming down the pipe that’s going to be disrupted. So that’s what I’m doing day to day. Its been amazing learning, but overall, that’s me. That’s my knowledge about apps.
Chris: Yeah I think that’s part of the interesting thing that you bring to the conversation here today is I’m gonna course we talk all the time, not on the podcast, but, is that you do have that kind of exposure to what large companies are doing, what their paying for, what best practices are. You kind of shared before that, in, can we mention the name of where you work?
Patrice: Yeah. Well I hope you mention it, its Somo. These guys are pretty cool about it, me doing all this stuff and there massive entrepreneurs themselves so I don’t mind saying it.
Chris: Yeah, okay cool. So at Somo you’ve mentioned before that, every job, I mean there’s like 56 different job titles, its like everyone has a specialty which is really cool because a lot of us wear a lot of different hats like you know, were not only creating keywords and names, but were picking designs, were figuring out user experience and the interface, and a lot of things. So its cool to see what you can do with a lot of money basically.
Patrice: Yeah and that’s exactly, so to a context on there, there’s a hundred and seventy people work in the company and as you mentioned Chris, there’s over 50 job titles and we have experts in that niche, random things. So from my perspective now, what are the learning experience? Its absolutely fantastic.
Chris: Yeah, related to all those job titles you also have people that have kind of invest their time and effort and energy in futures. Like where’s mobile going and what are the cool reports and what are the new data points. Sometimes you might escape the indie dev. You know Flurry doesn’t send a report out or App Annie doesn’t cover it or its not covered elsewhere. You know if its in a $1000 research report, a lot of indie devs just don’t have access to that. And you are privy to that kind of information and all the stuff that kind of people coming from corporate America might be used to like force their reports and stuff like that. So we thought that would be a good topic for today is what are some of the emerging mobile technologies your seeing and talking about in the office that you’re excited about. Maybe where mobiles headed and some of the opportunities that it might mean for guys like you and me.
Patrice: Absolutely. There’s some of the stuff there, I’m doing action on the forum that simply for a little bit, eye opening and scary potentially. Coz its very very disruptive, its moving very rapidly and I guess the key thing to knowing actions specially from, so I guess a little bit goes listening would be articles, will be thinking, hey you know, I get apps for the B2C consumer. I wanna do Candy Crush Saga equivalent. Candy Crush Gaga. I’m gonna call it and maybe skin in 10 times coz that’s where the money is. What I’m seeing is large companies don’t understand mobile a lot of the time. Its brand new to them. Its you know, they understand websites, that’s cool but mobile is this new disruptive thing. And they’re certainly throwing money at us, with the numbers were talking about or pretty high for big companies but they all think that because they’re a little bit scared, you know. They cant take a massive loss in terms of your finance so that’s probably not very good english.
Chris: No, its a huge blind spot for a lot of companies if they don’t have a mobile strategy someone else might and that could be their competitive advantage and they lose a bunch or market shares or results right?
Patrice: Yeah, exactly. So that’s what well do. So sitting around at a table with them, say hey let’s just strategy in terms of things. Maybe some of the cool things you mentioned or coming down the pipe which organically disrupts it maybe on a business to consumer level are emerging mobile technologies like iBeacons. Have you heard of iBeacons?
Chris: NoPatrice: So, I searched this …and have you heard of NFC, Near Field Communication?
Patrice: Yeah, so thats … giving you the ability to specially its in Europe if you have a credit card, you can just tap the real thing instead of paying with your card and your pin number just tap it on the specific device and that communicates the payment effectively. iBeacons is just blowing the added water and if you think about how to locate people, so for example if you have, with lots of dating apps out there which were making absolute killing because people spend money on that. That’s full of bad geolocations so they can pen you down within say 50 meters with a GPS. iBeacons you can be penned down to the nearest inch literally within a room. Which is incredible. So if you think about potential applications for that its absolutely massive specifically in retail for example.
Chris: I was just thinking my first reaction was man, that’s retail crazy and then I did a search for iBeacons and an hour ago there was a post about Macy begans iBeacon shopping test, right?Patrice: Yeah, and that’s exactly the kind of things, conversations were having right now and what your talking about there is there’s lots of companies looking to get offer rates with people. The days of buying at full price item, I think are increasingly gonna go away. Shoppers, you would know what they interested in, base on the data you have on them from those apps. So for example, there’s a company called Janrain?. These guys do social login, have you heard of these guys?Chris: YupPatrice: That’s what for websites, what service in the web just moving in to mobile? There’s no doubt about it. And what they did is, they can access your Facebook account, we all get friends and exactly what you do, what your interests are and combined that into an app and use us into the iBeacons, all of a sudden you go to Macy’s, your shopping for a TV and the app knows your shopping for a TV and there’s 12 competing brands. So the brands, what they’re doing is say “Hey, if he gets close to Samsung TV, give him a special offer.” And if he stops looking away from the Samsung TV, give him an even better offer. That’s the kind of thing were talking about the iBeacons.Chris: So, were gonna go into best spies in different stores and everyone is gonna be walking up and turning around and walking back..its gonna be doing a little dance so.. Yeah, and you know the use case for that is almost infinite like, if your a sports watcher and in your Facebook you have lots of sports teams or sports channels or sports people you know celebrities, personalities that you follow or like lets say. Then someone could sell on the benefits of say “Hey, this is the best TV for sports and if you have die hard and a bunch of action movies in your likes, in your profile then it might say “Hey, this is the best for watching high def movies, action movies.” Like there’s so, its almost like individual personalized tailoring of messages, like infinite segmentation to one. The user segment of onePatrice: Exactly. You’re exactly right and you take the line to the surf, so I think a lot of people are talking about and again you’re listeners would be dead keen to hear about mobile marketing and all that stuff and you, we deal with a 140 different mobile companies. We’ve been marketing media providers and yeah all of this incentivised videos etc. That’s over 140, that’s trying every single day. So you have massive amount of competition there and there’s a very very cool innovation going on. I think whats interesting is looking at, so basing things about iBeacons I’ve just mentioned. I think the competition is increasingly going into the real world as well. So take the ability to know about the users, base on the app, his interests or his stuff. Your walking around and instead of having a display advertising showing the same thing all the time, in those case it knows who you are, where you’re going, and it gives you a targeted ad for you right there. Its making me targeting ads on the web, in the real world, thanks to mobile. These emerging mobile technologies are going to happen in the next 12 months.Chris: That’s crazy.Patrice: Yeah
Chris: Its gonna be awesome to watch, yeah.
Patrice: Its a bit scary, this big big problem like, there’s no stopping it. I don’t say you can stop it.
Chris: Yeah, and you know people should buy about the big brother thing like “Oh Google is reading my emails”. They don’t care what you’re saying on your email, the government I would worry about. Google doesn’t care, Google is just trying to give you relevant ads so they can make more money and you buy some stuff, you know. So, that part, its more of an extension of something like that. And like anything you can opt out of the stuff, but as mobile developers agencies, you know. publishers these are the kinds of things that we need to be all over whether, you know, I served with apps and I kind of went into app monetization and thats what kind of struck my fancy. Everyone will find their own little niche that they really like to explore. And it could be something like selling B2B apps that are specifically around this kind of stuffs so yeah, who knows what kinds of apps and ideas and new problems and new solutions are. This stuff will spark, but yeah that’s an interesting one for sure.
Patrice: What’s interesting Chris is..talking about you know, you specialize in marketing, monetization side. Whats interesting about mobile, where we all right now is its so immature. And yeah, even the analytics is reasonable basic.
Chris: 50% of apps don’t even have basic analytics in them. According to the latest Forrester report. Its insane.
Patrice: It is insane. But what mobile is trying ahead for is good services being setup. So people trying to innovate that stuff, and its a free fall in terms of services.
Patrice: And I think, that should be the interesting space and should create some opportunities for people out there.
Chris: Okay, so one thing Patrice that you mentioned that kind of spark my interest is, so you talk about 120 different mobile providers or mobile ad platforms or networks or something like that, right? What are those specifically? Mobile marketing companies?
Patrice: Yeah, its so I think that kind of the ones that we deal with.
Patrice: So there’s more than that, its 140 internally. But its everyone, so whats good to know is if you want an app going to number one, and win the world for a special category. That can absolutely be done, its the question of money. That’s pretty exciting some people on this are pretty scared to others coz you think yeah, you spend months creating your baby of an app and its fantastic.
Chris: Some of them just buy their way in.
Patrice: So what are these companies? There’s many many different types and frankly if you do a quick Google search, you’ll find some and yeah the …. we should follow a selection of them that people should checked out. And it, you know, B: that they compensate from our perspective what were doing is we say, hey client so what your telling is you might get to #1 in Canada, okay, so here are the 10 companies that were going to advertise year on. We’ll gather the creatives so were gonna do the adverts itself, that’s you know little banners,so the interstellar ads, well gonna make them as attractive as possible with the cult reactions
Chris: Interstitial. You said interstellar as if like were crossing galaxies, but keep going.
Patrice: I think its one of those stupid name I ever heard for.
Chris: Yeah, its full of screen ad, but yeah
Patrice: Full of screen ads, okay that’s so much better, and well whats interesting it all about how much money will it cost me to acquire a new user. And you get a nine after a while on this ad network you get a 2% conversion rate. That’s gonna cost 2x when you get paid for an acquisition and that stuff again is really immature, its changing over time and if you’re an ad marketer right now and you’ve only go for an analytics that provides you with your ads, wow, you’ve got a long way to go.
Chris: Well, yeah absolutely
Chris: You’re way behind, but then the opportunities you know if your apps are dud then you’re not done yet because there’s lots of room for improvement, right?
Patrice: Yeah, exactly. I think when you said a chance of the valuation of apps working on this can be fascinating but of all the stuff I’m seeing at the moment, there’s people say “Hey, you’ve got an app, so I keep being emailed by random people going “Hey, you’ve got some apps, and you can exceed my downloads. Can I either buy my apps so straight up in direct offers coz they know that I’ve shown some of my apps I don’t have very good monetization through the ad networks. I haven’t had time to do that recently and yeah,they know they can double the revenue quite simply by just switching provider.
Chris: Yeah. That’s the game I’m in. I’m definitely on the buyer side and we’ll talk about that at some point in evaluation discussion but yeah, so what I was going with what are these ad, where this marketing companies providing one huge opportunity I see in a… I’ve started seeing some companies come out with more..with some solutions for this but a lot. So you mentioned some app to app. Like hey if you want more downloads for your app, you advertised your app in another app right? So, app cost promotions, stuff like that. But what seems to be missing or the best offers aren’t real world items. Its not like “Hey, you’re using this app so now I’m advertising Macy’s shoes to you.” And I think that’s a huge gap where the ads or the ads aren’t relevant and they’re not integrated very well and I mean all past data from data I have on my users that use the app, that they share either via Facebook or via the app to advertisers. So I can serve them more relevant ads and the advertisers don’t even use that data. They don’t even care the gender, or they don’t..its not built into the system that they’re looking for a specific gender, this age group, this set of the likes. And as a result, you don’t get a lot of relevant data, so easy PIMS or lower etc. But I think there’s a huge opportunity in a more relevant ads and in integrating ads to the apps so that it becomes like a cleaner user experience.
Patrice: Absolutely and that’s a really really good point. That’s really an important one to understand that it cannot be the best, its really immature. I have some diet apps and I’m being served some really weird ads, you know, that nothing to do with more user basis interests. If anything, you can stick them in, so okay diet apps, I’d put out some specific adverts which are relevant to that making video efforts. Yeah, you put through would be amazing, I just don’t understand why its not been done yet. Its only a massive time, right?
Chris: Yeah, and I think like guy is like Mopub and other big aggregators that have real time betting networks. The’re advertisers are gonna be demanding this kind of information specially when guys like me are providing it. So I think thats gonna be cleaned up, I also think there’s an opportunity in going around, mediation networks and ad networks and going right to specific advertisers. No reason to have to make a Macy shoe advertisement. Compete with Candy Crush if I think the Macy shoe advertisement is gonna be really relevant to my users, I can just go and create a one on one relationship with Macy’s or their, you know marketing arm.
Patrice: And so that’s really an interesting topic, effective on what were talking about is.. someone said becoming an affiliate that can share with brand. So imagine you have an app, you make it free cause a Freemium mobile is whats its all about the moment which one can, like people sense us about its such an innovative Wednesday.
Chris: Yeah, we cut our last episode off early because we kept talking it was like 50 minutes and were still talking.
Patrice: Yeah, that’s it, its something that is basically affiliate. Stop what you can do, so if you have an app put else the downloads coz its interesting, its information based top app? So you know, for example how to change a spare tire could be an app that you create. And you have a couple of videos in here and you know what I think a lot of people probably download that coz they think, now did you think mobile phones and you probably think video first.
Chris: Yeah, its nice to have betting your car if something goes wrong or something right?
Patrice: Yeah, its actually, its like always having an insurance policy knowing how to do that. Say wow I’ve never done it, yes, not sure but I don’t have to but I bet my wife would probably laugh at me if … what do I do..
Chris: You don’t wanna have to flagged down down another dude to help you change your tire down the road.
Patrice: I guess your point here is, you make an app and you make quality content and you saw a pinpoint then you use the media with just attempt they were the wrong people you should be thinking about and you just make it the next head game and then you try to monetize it. If you don’t monetize it by doing ad networks you go to very specific companies that will have an interest in that. So then you kiss the AA’s its like a rescue service for your car and I don’t know what it is in US or other countries
Chris: Its AAA here, its triple A
Patrice: Your kidding…
Patrice: That’s kind of the original
Chris: The triple A was first, come on Patrice
Patrice: Right there, right there you have got an advertiser if you have say 50,000 uses, Its gonna be like wow, fantastic, right there
Chris: Or order this $20 flashlight, you can have three offers per app. I mean there’s a lot of ways you could go and the idea would be you’ll be further in the user experience rather than feeling like an interruption to their experience because its so highly relevant that its appreciated, you know. Its like “Oh good, if I’m looking for, if I’m reading about changing my tire, putting it in my car, this app, then I’m gonna be interested in this other things they’re offering me. Thank you for reading my mind and giving me relevant things, you know as oppose to right now. Oh, Candy Crush is offering $3 an install, so here is a Candy Crush ad, you know.
Chris: And that’s what a lot of what we got. And this is another point I hammer home all the time and David and I talked about this. This is another reason why developers if your listening, you need a business partner a lot of times, or at least you I don’t know what to push you guys to hiring a marketing company coz I’m not sure I have any I can recommend right now but there’s so much moving, so many moving parts in monetization that it makes sense to at least consider bringing in someone that has this kind of interest and exposure and this is what they do, is find the ways to monetize your app and make your development effort, you know worthwhile, really.
Patrice: Absolutely, and just don’t, I think this was one of the key reasons why after the masterminds where we had, we talked about it before but aside, its on the mastermind which is a weekly call and we had, 50-50 straight devs marketers, it was incredible. We thought it came from incredibly opposite angles but because we’ve talked together, were already learned from one another and yeah after that every single day basically partnered up we go on the marketers, I guess that’s what were doing with the formula as well.
Patrice: You have to absolutely learn about that. Because its little point, its just kind of definitely the most beautiful app in the world and nobody knows about it. Go home and stop it, do something else.
Chris: Yeah, and I dont know if you heard, you havent heard some of the most recent episodes that David and I recorded but its amazing the position because we haven’t published it yet, but its amazing that the reasons that David provides for some of the decisions that developers make like, that they don’t.. you know its like – you, they don’t trust the marketer or marketing sound bad so maybe we start to refer to ourselves as publishers or something else
Patrice: Is it good that they call the sales persons as dirty word is it?
Chris: Yes, I’d rather be a business development person than a sales person right?
Patrice: And again I guess that’s what we see, which is really really cool to see on the forum, this dev is talking, so generally seeking information from the marketing side also getting building this relationships and then lets say he build a trust coz maybe hes trying not to tell anything on the forum, he sold by just conversations and just helping each other and comparing notes like talking to buddies. That’s how you build a relationships, but by talking to other app entreprenuer right there, coz you know later on yeah there’s tons of us right there, you need a phrase to talk and I think its really really important.
Chris: It the difference in my business so a lot of the difference in what you’ve been able to achieve. A lot of, I mean everyone of those people in the mastermind, in our mastermind like grew substantially individually and in their business during that 6 month period that were all together. So absolutely
Patrice: Its a good thing to do and what, I realized that we haven’t talked about some of the others of innovation coming down the pipe is that do you want me to touch on a couple of the things that could be of interest to your listeners?
Chris: How about this, do a couple of things, and then we’ll have you back and we’ll do another one? Coz were already at like 35 minutes or something..
Patrice: Wow, okay well, two things people can look at it afterwards on Google but it can be disruptive its if you haven’t heard its the Whirlpool technology, is things like that Samsung Galaxy Clear Watch, effectively Watch, lots of you never heard by the Pebble Watch, … I watch the MVP that was the ultimate basic version, yeah everybody’s after it. Samsung done one, Google is doing one, Apple is going to do one very soon, so that’s one and the other Whirlpool tech is Google glass just basically, instead of wearing glasses, you wear a little computer screen in front of your right eye and live it just streams relevant contextual, geographic, geotargeted information to you, to your right eye, its incredible
Chris: Yeah, I haven’t played with it yet but it looks very cool
Patrice: I had played with it, its pretty cool. I hope you wont be wearing it just next year, it might be a 2015 thing but again its happening, you cant ignore it and or apps, or app businesses. We just need to adapt to it.
Chris: Right, right. You know that wearable watch thing, is that not the perfect quantified self tool. Like you know all the quantified self guys are gonna be just going nuts with that watch. I imagine it with biometric everything right?
Patrice: You can absolutely do that and get some yeah, useful notifications and its all about the scampy, so scampy like twitter stuff notifications 24 characters max, your not geting anymore so much than that. Were already adaptors so adapting it, its doing really well
Chris: Yeah, well Patrice this has been awesome. Were definitely gonna have you back for a couple more conversations. One for sure is in app valuations but were gonna have to bring you back for futures. Coz that’s interesting, and then I also wanna pick your brain at some point for launch and kind of best practices for launch and maintenance marketing if you will, what did you do after the launch, how do you keep the downloads coming, how you keep users engage and coming back to your app after they downloaded it. Load of topics, lots of stuff, I imagine were gonna go over forty minutes on everything we talk about but I don’t think the users or the listeners will mind. So, okay cool we’ll close it and thanks again Patrice we’ll put all the stuff in the show notes and we talk about the forum, that’s a big thing, we’ll add some information on that in the show notes so be sure to check that out. Okay thanks Patrice
Patrice: Thanks Chris
Chris: See you next time guys.